Oliver spent his first five years and his adolescence in Woodbrook where Rosa worked as a domestic helper, and he attended Belmont Intermediate RC School.

Between 1970 and 1974 he taught at Diego Martin Boys' RC while studying for A-levels and then at the Teachers' Training College. While at Diego Martin, Oliver also became involved in a struggle for better conditions in the school, which suffered water shortages ad a lack of desks. He joined the National Joint Action Committee (NJAC), rising to its central executive. In 1974 he formed the Teachers Organization for Fair Play, acting as the group's public relations officer.

Oliver was also one of the "Committee of 22" teachers whose dissatisfaction with St Elmo Gopaul's leadership of the Trinidad and Tobago Teachers Union led them to form Comfut - the Committee for the Unification of Teachers. He was the president of the Elementary Schools Principals Association.

From 1975 to 1989 he taught at the Rose Hill RC School, after which he transferred to his present position as principal of the Tunapuna Boys' RC School.

Last year, Oliver made the news when he penned alternative lyrics to Gypsy's "Little Black Boy", celebrating black role models, and in October when he was part of a three-man protest around the Red House against the lack of security in schools.

He is interviewed here by Express writer Kim Johnson.

Q: What do you see as the challenges facing TTUTA and teachers?

A: One of the challenges would of course be the professionalization of the service. When I talk of the professionalization of the service I mean first of all, one of the first things we have to do is have training for teachers, further professional and academic training. You also need commensurate with that additional pay. And you have to develop the collegiality and the expertise of the teachers so that teachers would work in a collegial way, in a consultative way. Teachers consulting teachers - what you don't know I could tell you, what I don't know you can tell me. And having teachers do a lot of professional reading, constantly renewing the tricks of the trade (if you will call it that). So there needs to be that constant renewal of knowledge, but with that must also come pay. So that the challenge will always be, when we look at education in its purest form, is to have quality student learning. In other words, the union in partnership with the authorities must be able to facilitate the kind of environment and learning situations whereby learning would be enhanced.

Q: Do you see today as we're on the edge of the new millennium a requirement for a different learning environment from when you or I were in school?

A: Yeah. In my time learning was a transmission thing. The teacher stood there and the teacher was the transmitter of learning. It was almost like the teacher was the total reservoir of all learning. In the new situation now, going on to the new millennium, the teacher should be just resource, a human resource, a very valuable one but only one resource that the child should access for knowledge. The child should be able to access the computer, to access the library, to access museums and so. In other words, the child must be taught to learn how to learn and there should be less emphasis on content learning and more on skills and how to acquire knowledge.

Q: Why do you think so?

A: Because content could always change but once you have skills to research whatever is the change in knowledge you would be able to adapt to it. Plus, even without the presence of a teacher a child with certain study habits could go ahead studying. And what we want to build too is a lot of cooperative learning. Let me explain cooperative learning: you might have a topic on tourism and you get children in groups to do research on tourism and come back to discuss so that the child is a co-producer of his own knowledge. That is the way we are heading this time where children study with other children, they are co-producers so it's not just the teacher's notes. They are bringing in things to that the child is actively involved in his learning as opposed to the transmission learning where the teacher gets all the notes, gets everything, comes before the class and tries to get the child to regurgitate.

Q: You've been in primary schools your whole professional life. Do you think that gives you a particular view on the challenges facing teachers and education?

A: Yeah, because first of all, the primary school is the foundation of all learning. Whatever problems the child is experiencing you pick it up early so that the question is, at that level we're able to see the child at an early stage and do things to prevent like literacy and numeracy problems. Then in the primary school the child is at his or her formative years and those are the years, as they say, if you let the tree get crooked then you can't straighten it. So you are able to see the child in his innocence, the child now acquiring knowledge, so you are better able to fashion the child's learning capabilities and skills. Also at that stage you see what the child is pointing to, what direction the child is going and how you can shape that child towards a positive direction.

Q: In this context how do you see the government's position on abolition of the Common Entrance?

A: We're looking at CAP and what we're saying is that if you are going to have continuous assessment you have to be able to give the facilities for it. CAP and all these other attempted reforms, on of the problems is that they are not properly financed. For instance, with CAP the committee recommends a kind if referral system that children may have learning disorders, they may have behavioral problems, and you have psychologists and psychiatrists and so on to help the teacher deal with these problems, but that's not being done. Also, when you look at CAP you need a lot of storage space, some schools do not have that kind of storage space. And then the question of security. No significant reform can take place in the primary school without proper security.

Q: Why do you say so?

A: If you take the question of computers: if you put computers in this school now and they do not have security, in the next few days all the computers gone. If you have TV and video and so on, they will take that. We have lost a lot of things before we fought and got security here.

Q: When you spoke about security I was actually thinking about something else. For example, under continuous assessment the teachers have the power to decide this child goes to that school. That is a powerful thing in this society.

A: The security I was talking about is in the assessment you have to keep sensitive documents so you need that security. What has to happen is a lot of training - you must train the teachers and people must build confidence in the system.

Q: What about integrity? I want my daughter to go to a prestige school - that is make or break for their life.

A: That's why we say there has to be some more consultation on this issue and I wouldn't want to say too much without my executive, my executive and I will be definitely looking at that to see what solutions we could come up with.

Q: Something that seems to be a problem in education systems in the Caribbean and perhaps in much of the world, is the underachievement of boys. Recently it became a big public issue when QRC decided to stop taking in girls for A-Levels. What are your views on the problems facing boys in the education system - why are they being outstripped by girls? Or, is that your experience?

A: Well, I have a boy's school and our boys do well but I feel that when you look at boys they like a lot of challenges. One of the things I would say immediately: the education system must present challenges for boys. There must be a lot of hands-on things to do. For instance: sometimes you see a boy as if he's failing, he's not doing the maths and so on. But when you go you see them handling computers, they go with these video games and theyou mak say, if you mak say, if you mak say, if you make education attractive and the teaching attractive yntion. Boys are not going to have things where they are a partoco make learning attractive for boys. You see t Your computers ws. It's multifaceted causes but one of the things is that the learning has to be more attractive. The other thing is that boys are exposed to more than ed to more than ed to more than ed to more than ed to more than ed to more than ed to more than ed to more than ed to more than ed to more than ed to more than ed to more than girls. Parents keep their girls inside but the boys are free to roam, and boys are more distracted and have more distractions than girls. That is part of the problem.

Q: Is it also a part of the problem that boys tend to have less self-discipline than girls and a shorter attention span?

A: I have no empirical data on that, but that could be possible.

Q: You are a president without a party. You see that as presenting a problem?

A: TTUTA constitution doesn't recognize any party. The party has been something, a facility that we have developed because it is difficult for any one independent to go to all the schools so people have formed alliances over the years. As far as I'm concerned, after the election you have an executive elected and that executive will have to work together for the teachers. So I don't see any problem.

Q: You see any problem with the transition from Mr. Garcia?

A: No. I've been talking to Mr. Garcia and he is willing to help. Mr. Garcia and I have had a long relationship, I've gone abroad with him, I've represented TTUTA with him at home and I don't see any problem.

Q: What about the issue of race within TTUTA? Earlier this week I was speaking with someone who suggested that TTUTA might suffer from a problem of East Indian members being less willing to challenge the Government than when the PNM was the party in power.

A: Well, this election didn't show that. This election a lot of issues were thrown out, reclassification and so on, which may require the challenging of government, the fact that teachers all through the country voted in a particular kind of way shows that teachers - they don't want to rabble rouse but the feeling out there is if there is a need to do something strong they will do something strong. But they prefer to negotiate and I think that we are reaching a position where people are more thinking about the educational process and teacher efficacy rather than race.

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